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Jüdische Schulen / Wien - Berlin - Praha
Das jüdische Kulturfestival in Prag

Vorbereitungstext / English

Gedenken an die Opfer des Nationalsozialismus:
Für Juden Teil ihres Selbstverständnisses 
– und was ist es für Nichtjuden?

Chat am 09-11-2000 / 9:00h - 10:00h
Moderation: Peter Finkelgruen / Köln <m-peter f.>

<m-peter f.> Wenn ich die Uhr richtig lese, müßte der Raum voll sein - oder haben wir das akademische Viertel?
[Thu Nov 09 09:02:14 GMT+01:00 2000] z-michael: goethe-institut
<b-hauke> die schüler kommen gleich. wir haben noch eine gedenkstunde  wg. dem 9.11.1938
<m-peter f.> Hello, hello - to Prague as well - Shall we all switch to  englisch straight away?
[Thu Nov 09 09:03:35 GMT+01:00 2000] b-mara: teacher in the Jewish  school berlin
<m-peter f.> Good morning Mara. Are you alone - or are the pupils with  you?
[Thu Nov 09 09:04:14 GMT+01:00 2000] fabian entered
<m-peter f.> Good Morning.
<z-michael> hallo, hier bin ich und bin gespannt, ob an diesem  besonderen Tag Prag und Berlin zusammenkommen. Guten Tag,  Peter, viel Glück beim Moderieren!
<b-mara> There is already one student here, and the otheres are coming ...

<b-mara> Alina is here and Jakob, too... Good morning everyone!
<m-peter f.> Hello, Fabian - are you a pupil? From which school?
[Thu Nov 09 09:06:52 GMT+01:00 2000] Michael: male
[Thu Nov 09 09:06:53 GMT+01:00 2000] Lexxa: male
[Thu Nov 09 09:07:08 GMT+01:00 2000] B-Jacob:
<Lexxa> Hi, is there someone on-line
<Michael> I am!
[Thu Nov 09 09:07:36 GMT+01:00 2000] p-karin: hello everybody! Prague is finally entering  the Chat!!!

[Thu Nov 09 09:07:36 GMT+01:00 2000] b-alina fabian:
<m-peter f.> Hello and good morning. It would be nice if you all, when pupils, at the start  make clear from where you are, OK?
<m-peter f.> Good Morning also to Prague. Dobry Rano!
<Lexxa> Yeah, we had problems with the firewall.
<B-Jacob> I am from the jewish highscholl in Berlin.
<Michael> Dobre rano !!! Good morning!!!
<m-peter f.> Shall we wait a few more moments for those from Vienna and Frankfurt?
<Michael> Yes, we`ll wait.
<Lexxa> I think we should wait for them

<z-michael> I think, Vienna will not enter today, no information from Francfort yet.
[Thu Nov 09 09:11:23 GMT+01:00 2000] johana und Daniel: female/male
[Thu Nov 09 09:11:42 GMT+01:00 2000] sebastian:
<m-peter f.> Hello and good morning johanna and daniel. From which city are you?
<m-peter f.> the same goes to sebastian.
[Thu Nov 09 09:12:13 GMT+01:00 2000] p-karin: hello everybody, 
prague is finally here
<Lexxa> Shalom aus Prag
<m-peter f.> Well, it appears that Prague and Berlin are here. Does Michael know anything about the others?
<sebastian> hello and good morning
<johana und Daniel> shalom we are from prague/yeah finaly there
<b-alina fabian> hallo everybody
<b-mara> we haven't heard anything from Vienna yet...
<p-karin> hello Michael, what a pity... we had to go to an Internet cafe.
<m-peter f.> So you are not in the school - but in a CAFE? How nice.
<p-karin> Well, it's not very nice because we are paying for it while having 12 computers at school connected on-line ...
<johana und Daniel> AHOJKY MICHÁLKU A LEXXO
[Thu Nov 09 09:14:29 GMT+01:00 2000] p-Michael: male
[Thu Nov 09 09:14:40 GMT+01:00 2000] z-iris: I live in Berlin

<johana und Daniel> lets go open the discusion....
<m-peter f.> Well, since I have asked all others to indicate from where they are. I am  living in Cologne
[Thu Nov 09 09:15:24 GMT+01:00 2000] p-michael:
<m-peter f.> And yes I agree, lets start now - and hope the others join us soon.
<p-michael> I am back with the right name :-)
<b-hauke> michael, what's the matter with david in vienna?
<sebastian> i am from berlin.

<m-peter f.> Well. I have a question to the pupils. Here in Germany, in Berlin a big  demonstration is taking place today against  racism antismitism and radicalism. There is als a debatte among some people whether it  is right , whether jewish personalities  should speak at this demonstration? What do you think?

<sebastian> its very important i think.
<johana und Daniel> ok so,there is diferent look on schoah in each country so,for the start  we d like to know your general opinion  about this....:)
<b-mara> Actually the theme of the demonstration is ' We support tolerance and human rights  for all people, not just Jews
<p-michael> I thing a demonstration is good because people must know something about racism  etc.

<m-peter f.> Any other opinion.? What do you think? Is there a difference if "minorities"  demonstrate for their own rights - of if  "majorities demonstrate for the rights of the minorities?
<b-mara> Michael, do you think that the demonstration will result in people learning about  racism? I think it is mainly so that people  feel that their voice will be stronger in a group than alone.
<johana und Daniel> May I know somebody's opinion about the schoah?
<p-michael> I think when someone is on street and demonstrating other people who are going  around can listen and learn  something new about it.
<johana und Daniel> Is there anybody interesting in it?
<m-peter f.> I think Johanna and Daniel put forward a valid question. The different look -  and let me say, feeling - on the shoa in  each country. Lets take the countries represented here in the chat. Prague, B erlin and  Vienna for example. What would be the  differences?

<p-michael> I think in Czech rep. people know what is holocaust.
<p-michael> But the question is if they do not forget it.
<m-peter f.> ...and of course they know it from the other side so to speak of the  experience...
<m-peter f.> Michael. Do you think they s h o u l d forget it?
<johana und Daniel> actually in czech republic we look differently at schoah than in germany
<p-michael> Jews no. Other yes.
<m-peter f.> johanna and Daniel, could you tell us what you think the difference is?
<b-Alina und Fabian> in germany everybody knows what the holokost is.
<b-sebastian(sebo)> i hope that we never forget the things ,which happend 50 years before.

<p-karin> Are there any teachers coming to Prague next Wednesday?
<b-mara> yes! Hauke and I will be there from Berlin, as well as Franz and David from Vienna.
[Thu Nov 09 09:28:41 GMT+01:00 2000] guest: Andrea aus München.

<b-sebastian(sebo)> have you read the text

<m-peter f.> Let me repeat Sebos question: Have you read the text? Are there any questions  with regard to the text - or arising out of  it?

<p-michael> I don`t read it all. It was too long for me.
<b-sebastian> to long

<m-peter f.> Before going into the question by michael - I have another question: Why are  the two words "holocaust" or "Shoa" used  outsidde Israel or America? Why doe people not use a word from their own language?
<b-mara> I think I can answer that. I am American...

<p-michael> I think it is because it is the name for it. Why give more names to one thing?
<m-peter f.> How about Prague?
<johana und Daniel> We think that between Jews are the same feelings, no matter if they are  from germany or from czech rep. But  there are differents between czech and german society. Czech society doesn't bear stigma  of the guilt.Momentarily there is a  pro-Jewish tendency, but at the same time there is very strong antipaty against other  minorities. fe:gipsies.

<m-peter f.> I tried to express among others exactly that the remmebrance of "what happened"  is different. Depending on who  remembers. But what does this mean ? What could or should follow from it?
<b-hauke> is it to difficult to bear or to accept it?
<p-michael> Ich bin homas
<johana und Daniel> what's up guys??
<b-sebastian> ask me something
<b-mara> When my grandparents explained the Holocaust to me, they used this term..I don't  see where the problem is, I see it as  my cultural backgroud, that I use yiddish words or Spanish words or whatever. The term Holocaust has a signigicance. The word is clear and precise, and I am not 
sure ther is better one

<Lexxa> Hi Here is Lexxa
<m-peter f.> Hello....
<B-Alina und Fabian> hello
<Lexxa> HI

<johana und Daniel> whats the look at the Jews of the german society at the moment?
[Thu Nov 09 09:38:22 GMT+01:00 2000] P-Tereza a Kikina: prag
<z-iris> I think in germany the problem ist that non - Jews identify with the jewish 
<b-sebastian> the relationship between the jews and the germans is getting better
<P-Tereza a Kikina> hallo, how are you?
<m-peter f.> Hello, Tereza & Kikina
<p-michael> ich bin Thomas Haas hebr.lehrer auf dem hebr.Gymnasium und ich denke dass ...
<b-sebastian> hello...
<B-Alina und Fabian> we think that the germans don't have any contackt to jewish people
<z-iris> Alina + Fabian, I agree, most Germans have no contact with Jews.
<b-mara> Why do you think that is so? Are the Jews here too isolated? 

<m-peter f.> For those who have entered latter: We are discussing the difference of  understanding what happened during the  persecution in different countries.
<z-iris> mara, I think non-Jews are very ambiguous; and even if they know Jews they don` t perceive them as Jews;

<b-mara> Is that not a good sign, then, that a relationship is not based on a quota, 'Oh I  have a Jewish friend' but rather on common  interests?
<z-iris> This depends what the background of the situation is.

<z-iris> Mara, I think if you know another person it is normal to perceive the background and not to evade perceiving it.

<b-mara> to Iris: Of course I knoe about the background of my friens, but it is simply not put into a category or avoided. If someone has a question, they ask, one talks about it openly without it being a stigma

<p-michael> Hi Michael is back, our teacher tried to talk, but he isn`t good with computers. 
<m-peter f.> For ecample: Are those demonstrating in Berlin today - are they demonstrating  for others, for minorities for example?  Or are they demonstrating for themselver?
<m-peter f.> Hello, michael, maybe one of you can type for him...

<p-michael> Can a Jew in Germany say "I am Jew"?

<m-peter f.> Well: Of yourse he can. It depends mainly on his self-consciousness. But I  think most Germans have great difficulties  saying the word "Jew".
<B-Alina und Fabian> we think that the group of jewish people in germany is very small since 50 years so contacts between ger. and jews are not so often.
<m-peter f.> Alin and Fabian. Can you explain that a little more?
<johana und Daniel> Do you still feel any guilt for Holocaust? And do you think that next  generations will still feel the responsibility?

<m-peter f.> Alina, why are contacts not so often?
<B-Alina und Fabian> the groups of jewish are withdrawn in germany

<m-peter f.> to johanna and Daniel: I think there is a difference between "Guilt" and  "Responsibility". The question of "Responsility" in the next Generations. It is like an  inheritance. It does not consist only in positive and  nice thigs - but also in diffidulties and burdens. And dometimes you carry these burdens  over several generations.

<johana und Daniel> with us here in cafe there is thomas haas,our hebrew teacher,who  survived the holocaust,and he thinks that  Jews should care that it will not happen again in any time and anywhere.that is the  responsibility of the Jews.On the the other side  there is a responsibility of the guilty ones ...
[Thu Nov 09 09:52:46 GMT+01:00 2000] b-Alina und Fabian:

<p-michael> peter: Do Germans look better on Jews than on other minorities?
<z-iris> michael, yes in the public space. there is a hierarchy of minorities - and in German society Jews are on the top of  that hierarchy
<P-Tereza a Kikina> You think in Czech Republic - and maybe in other country is big mode jewish stil  of live, you think it has star in jewish  suffering.

<m-peter f.> to michael: yes, there is something like an official good behaviour - and then,  often in private many people show their  aversions or hesitancies.

<m-peter f.> Do you think that the "mode" or fashion is something that will not stay very long?

<z-iris> tereza , it is the same way here: all things Jewish are trendy
<b-hauke> sorry all, our project to reichspogromnacht will start in 10 minutes
<m-peter f.> Well... it was very lively with you...Thank you
<johana und Daniel> ok thanks for the conversation,see you tomorow........
<b-hauke> see you all tomorrow or next week in prag

<p-michael> So, we must finish to. So, see you tommorow.
<m-peter f.> Is Prague leaving us too?
<P-Tereza a Kikina> O. K. Hallo, tomorow
<m-peter f.> Na Sheladanou!

haGalil onLine 12-11-2000



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